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Talk:Genetic engineering
Prolong, genetic engineering? I can recall no statement in the Canon on this point. A first level implication from what is stated suggests that it cannot be. Prolong recipients do not pass their prolong on to their descendants, but require treatment themselves at or before puberty. for instance, Queen Elizabeth's complaints at the Bay House party about being flat chested for years with no hips -- due to prolong. And yet her father, King Roger, was expected to reign for a very long time as he had had prolong. I think we need to fix this. Wikipedia ww 03:56, March 11, 2010 (UTC) :Proof/quotation is necessary indeed. I can reacall statement, that prolong treatment didn't brokes Beowulf Code barrier. It was not just tinkering with genome, but making it to express slower (11 month long pregnancy, long physical immaturity). There are some DW's post on infodump, so it can help.--dotz 05:42, March 11, 2010 (UTC) ::There's a subtlety here. The term genetic engineering, in the sense that DW uses it in the Honorveris quite similar to the way it's used on early 21st century Earth. It has to do with both heritability of changes and with pathology. So, the gene defect for Huntington's disease (fully heritable) might be reversed in an individual so they would not develop the condition, but not change what is passed on to children. That would be acceptable to us (were to be able to do it -- and I judge we're far from being able to do so) and to Beowulf. The next case would be to be able to fix the gene defect for children, but not for the individual. He or she would still suffer the horrors of Huntington's, but not pass it on to children. This would be acceptable to us and, it being a pathology with no known benefits, to Beowulf as well. ::But this is not what Beowulf objects to, nor what we might. They object to deliberate manipulation of the germ plasm, not biosculpt (which is not passed on to children and is rather more sophisticated an effective than 21st century plastic surgery, I gather) to achieve something not related to or required by treatment of pathology So, as I make it out, most of the Meyerdahl First wave Beta mods would be something Beowulf would have objected to, while I'm not so sure about the higher gravity coping part of the mod might not have been. And the same fo rthe heavy grav mods for San Marinos. ::On the other hand, the genetic changes that produced Thandi Palane's people were (mostly) the result of natural selection under harsh conditions, which would not violate Beowulf's strictures. Though in that case, I suspect that both we in the 21st century and the Beowulfians would have been horrified at the recklessness which produced so much suffering and death in choosing those planets to settle on. ::Mesa's manipulations, being deliberate, directed at the germ plasm, certainly fail the Beowulf test, and would probably fail our own were we technically able to do such things. Though someone would surely try. ::So in the case of prolong, if it works as I expect from various comments, affects only the individuals genetic structure (or expression) and not the germ plasm. So no violation of the Beowulf Code, and I think we'd be willing to tolerate it too. Wikipedia ww 05:12, March 12, 2010 (UTC) So :::(I am still not checked infodump) It seems genetic engineering is matter of definition. My conclusions after short knowledge recall at your post: prolong was genetic engineering, if it was obtained with genetic engineering measures (do novels confirm it? IMO it very likely was genetic engineering). --dotz 06:24, March 12, 2010 (UTC) ::::Certainly a matter of definition as in all cases of human terms for something. However, we can't use private definitions for terms others use for something else without considerable confusion. Probably best to stick with the conventional definition unless really necessary. Wikipedia ww 00:24, March 13, 2010 (UTC) :::To me what Beowulf object to is the manipulation of DNA to "improve" humans that have no medical reason for doing so. What Beowulf does not object to is the correction of genitic diseases like Cistic Fibrousos or The afor mentioned Hunningtons disease. Remember what Allison Harrington discovered about the Grayson's. That was a matter of the Graysons survival that ran smack into law of unintended consaquences regarding there male to female birth ratio.--John964 18:32, March 12, 2010 (UTC) ::::Good example of precisely what I was talking about. This sort of gneetic manipulation -- to remedy an inherited disease or adverse condition -- is clearly OK under the Beowulf code. Thanks. Wikipedia ww 00:24, March 13, 2010 (UTC) Lacking subjects * Harrington's genotype (Meyerdal first wave)--dotz 06:05, March 11, 2010 (UTC) :Meyerdahl first wave beta, actually, which was slightly different than the alpha mod. And her genotype was, of course, much more than that mod, as she was sufficiently genetically similar to "regular" humans that she was able to have children with them. Likewise, despite the much greater changes, with Thandi Palane, for her people were still sufficiently close genetically to "regular" humans that Manpower could use them in its slave breeding program, and they remained sexually attractive to "normal" humans and attracted to them as well. So Thandi's genotype is considerably different from (but not too far so) from 'normal" humans, while Honor is much closer. :There's a logical problem here in talking about the genotype of a group, however, as no individual in a group has all the genes found in the group, only some of them. So is the genotype of a group the sum of all the possible genes which might be found in a member of the group? Or something else. It's part of the intellectually treacherous quicksand which underlies any discussion of race difference, whether the kind found in recent years in South Africa or the related unreason behind Hitler's ideas of virtue or vice in assorted races. Wikipedia ww 05:28, March 12, 2010 (UTC) * Use of Mfecane genotype.--dotz 08:32, March 13, 2010 (UTC) Structure of the article It is "geographical". I recommend - concerned on subjects one. BTW it wasn't genetic plan to settle Sphinks with Harringtons.--dotz 08:35, March 13, 2010 (UTC) :Doesn't say so in the article, or does it? -- SaganamiFan 13:05, March 13, 2010 (UTC) ::The Harringtons immgrated from Myerdahl shortly after the Plauge of 22AL. Read ABF.--John964 02:09, March 17, 2010 (UTC)